Beefeater

[ShadowD3F]

MMMM... Kool-aid?

[magerpainz]

A lot of people have put A lot of thought into this thread. Many have spoken the thoughts of some. Some have spoken the thoughts of many.

Before this, I probably had spent as much time talking to Beef as anyone had. I have also spent a lot of time in game with Beef.
The whole episode has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. I feel, nothing more that can be said about it at this point will probably change anything on the matter.

I consider everyone in KOA a friend, as I did with Beef. I don't like what it has done to us as a clan. It is definitely an unfortunate ordeal for all concerned and for KOA as a whole.
Therefore, I feel it is time Put this behind us and to move on.

Many of you have ideas of how to better the clan. Good! If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Start a new thread. Post your ideas. We all have learned lessons here. Let's put them to good use. It's time to re-Unite, Fight the good Fight and make this "The Best Adult Clan in RuneScape" once again.

[benson300]

Damn, I didn't get my two cents in!

[benson300]

That was a joke by the way, I would rather stay away from the drama! I thought the thread was closed and out of curiousity I typed it and it actually posted!

[Hail of Arwz]

I Agree with Mager. Let's make a better future for our clan!

[Dave]

What I think regarding the issue has already been said...but with regards to the admin aside:

Because there are cliques within any clan...and it would not be fair...

I don't see a difference between people in a clique voting for somebody in their clique to be an admin, and an admin offering biased recommendations towards a member who their in a clique with. Admins are normal people and RS players too, and therefore just as susceptible to any bias that any regular member may have. I know they act in their view of the clan's best interest, but I also think I and every other member strives to act in our views of the clan's best interest. Sometimes these views differ, but more often than not they are similar.

[Deep_Pain]

Well I have a headache.

I've been umming and ahhing about what to post here, whether to reply at all, the problem with drama of course is that posting at all adds some kind of fuel to the flames. But on the other hand I'm fairly shocked at the drama surrounding this post, most of it at gossip level. One evening in the CC and I feel overloaded with gossip about the problems surrounding this issue. Not the fact that beef has been kicked or the reasons why, but as an excuse for some people to cause totally unneccessary - unrelated drama. Admins may not agree with posts people make, admins may occasionally need to lock posts, or warn people for their behaviour or even kick people for something they have done. But you are not going to get warned or banned for contacting an admin to say you dont like something, you are not going to get warned or banned for making a post that is critical of a decision or the way something is done in the clan. What part of drama free clan do some people not understand? If you have a problem, an issue, dont agree with something.. make a thread, contact an admin, dont spread rumour, gossip, attack the clan or its leaders behind the scenes.

Ok to some of the points themselves;

Democracy,

Dismissing the suggestion of a democratic election for clan administrative positions because 'some personalities are not admin material' seems a little idiotic

Sorry but that in my case makes me an idiot, because I dismissed any suggestion of a democratic election for admins primarily on those grounds, I have seen what happens to clans when people who are not suitable for leadership are voted in, I have seen many clans collapse, including the original KoA which fell apart due to elected leaders infighting, bickering, and eventually one of those elected leaders banning all the other staff and deleteing half the posts of the forums, trying to take the site down etc.. I have not seen any entirely democratic clan survive with the little drama and great community KoA has. If there is such a great democratic clan out there, why are we all here?

I guess there's a reason we don't vote for Admins.....no one just knows what it is.

The reason is quite clear, because that is how I founded KoA.

I could elucidate on my reasons, but I feel it would be better placed on a thread asking for democracy, and I'm sure present and former admins would be happy to post why they felt it didn't need changing and other members would be happy to give reasons as to why there should or shouldnt be a democratic process. But for that to happen someone needs to make a thread, as there doesnt seem to be one, or to my memory have been one since the clan was started, I see no need on this thread, it's unrelated.

More transparency:

This clan has always tried to keep peoples privacy in tact, if someone is kicked from the clan they still have everyone on their friends list. They can still put their point of view across, any member is more than welcome to add someone who has been banned, we dont carry a list of people you cant speak to. If they wish to tell you their side, that's fine, but the admin in general wont tell you why they have been kicked, due to how well liked beef is the admins in this case felt pressured to give more information, that may or may not have been the right decision in this particular case, but in general KoA will always try it's best to protect someones privacy, we are not judges or the police, they can only act on information given to them and limited investigation, in this case the complaints of several members and it seems something beef himself said had happened. The admins act in what they feel is in the very best interest of the clan. In most cases you will never see what goes on behind the scenes, because of the ethos of the clan. A drama free environment, they deal with the drama so you don't have to. If you want drama, find it elsewhere. I would ask that with the limited amount of people that have been kicked from this clan in a long history, the limited warnings given out, that you trust decisions made by the admins. People are never kicked for no reason, people are never kicked for a power trip. I quote an old post of mine:

We will punish people for breaking our rules, nobody is free to insult other members. Although punish isn't really a good word to use here, we don't hold anything against anyone who breaks our rules, the only power we have is to say, you can be in this clan, or you can't be in this clan, we can only ask that people follow our rules, if they don't, hey it's nothing personal, we don't get into some big power trip punishing people, because at the end of the day, someone is in the clan or they're not, it's no biggie.

I'm pretty sure that applies to the admins now, nobody had anything against beef in the admin, he did something, he was warned against doing it and demoted. He did it again. the admins felt it was something of a nature that would deserve a ban. It's not a grudge, a vendetta, a power trip, it's not done with the intention of hurting him or making him feel bad, or a form of punishment on him, any kicking in KoA is done in the best interests of KoA not individuals.

Ok so last point on the kicking itself, I discuss it because reasons have been given, if they hadn't I would respect the admins decision, have kept beef on my friends list and left it at that, but because the information is out there in this case and people are discussing it, Firstly I would say, kudos to anyone whether they agree or not with what has happened, who took the time tio post their view on here or speak to an admin, and not use it as an opportunity to cause drama behind the scenes.

I like beef, I shall not be deleting him and would like to hear his side of this, but at the same time, whatever his side is, and I hope he understands when what I say is passed onto him, from the complaints recieved from more than one person over time, the admin had no choice, I cant comment on what the content of the complaints were, or if they are true or untrue, but the number and nature of the complaints, meant for the interests of KoA and it's members there was only one option, which was to remove beef as a member. that doesn't mean I assume he is guilty, but that koa doesnt have the ability to punish, we cant jail people or beat them or curtail peoples liberties, we cant run full investigations into people, their backgrounds etc.. they can work on the limited amount of evidence in front of them and make a decision based on that, which they feel best represents everyones interests.

sorry for bad grammar im knackered from reading up on all the changes in RS, way past my bed time after a long day at work and work in not too many hours lol

[Mjoltiny]

Thanks Dan, and well spoken.

[blarny3]

Welcome back Deep, your post has made me peckish!!!!!! Never a truer word said!

[curanir]

that's very sad to see beef leave, really nice guy, so I'm quite surprised about that, but thanks admin for letting us know and keeping us safe.

~cur