Political Debates in cc

[Cally Raven]

Just a reminder of KoA rules for the debate of politics and religion in cc

Please keep inciteful debates (religion/politics etc..) to the "Debate" forum and not clan chat.

These can be found here - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1030

We have already had one person leave clan and others upset over debate this morning!
Please, Runescape is an escape for us from real life, lets keep it that way and not let it divide us as a clan

[Ducky Fuzz]

Well said

[hippikin]

As an aside, please voice concern if feeling discomfort with regards to the cc discussion. Either to a an admin or through private chat. There is no reason why a difference in opinion should lead to exit of a clan, an adult clan at that!

It's easy for to get carried away when discussing sensitive, yet passionate topics like politics. Sometimes it takes a reminder to cool down a little.

Communication is key!

Thank you for the message, Cally.

[Twirlindana]

Politics and religion are topics that I always avoid in cc, because I know that my views could offend other ppl, (particularly my point of view on religion ).
I hope everybody involved will take the time to cool off and see that there's no point in leaving the clan because of stuff that really has no place in RS.

[Oobz]

I say we vote on it.

[SnowAngel]

Oob for President??

[SnowAngel]

The person who quit had already said earlier that she was quitting RS so it's not as dramatic as it seems..... but I agree with the rule of not discussing politics in cc. That's what private chat or the debate section of this forum are for!

[Wynn Andye]

The situation was not as is being presented here.

A person in the clan was very upset, and what was needed was some tolerance and understanding. Qualities, I would think, that an adult clan would display. It was not a political debate. It was actually a clan member that required some extra consideration in light of some extreme circumstances. All of this was created by a thoughtless comment and attitude by another clan member. It was handled poorly by admin who decided to deal with the situation by immediately throwing the rule book at the person publically in cc. We have now lost a member who leaves the clan feeling attacked and unsupported by koa. It was incredibly unsettling to witness, and to say I am disappointed is an understatement.

As to snow's comment, we cannot assume that this person attended to leave the clan or rs. I heard the same comments, but I cannot assume to know the mind or decision of another person. Nor does the comments made make this person less important or less of a loss.

Personally, I am concerned. I repeat, in case this justification about political debates appears again - this was not two people discussing politics. This was not an extended conversation. This was one young person, very upset and needing some clan support. The same support we regularly provide for those clan members venting their rs frustrations and losses.

I am not prepared to take the popular position on this one. Sorry.

Wynn

[Cally Raven]

The conversation was directly about politics, I stated KoA rules and tried to contact all the people involved in the ensuing conversation to try and avoid the drama in cc going any further to try and stop any more upset. I feel I handled the situation in the best way I could at the time to stop any escalation.

[Raist Fasa]

Wynn,

As stated by Hippi above:

As an aside, please voice concern if feeling discomfort with regards to the cc discussion. Either to a an admin or through private chat. There is no reason why a difference in opinion should lead to exit of a clan, an adult clan at that!

Now, from me:

Patience, tolerance and understanding is needed by each and every one of us. Myself and the other admins, as well as our motley group of Clannies, do our best to provide that on a daily basis. We are an adult clan, and in my experience; which is all I can speak of, people have been warm, helpful and certainly accepting. The clan does, as does any clan, have rules and expectations concerning how members conduct themselves in the public chat as well as concerning overall behavior. These rules, or guidelines If you will, are not random, were given much thought and deliberation before being put in place, and were put in place with the best intentions for the clan as a whole; to be that warm accepting place a player can feel welcomed and at home in. If you feel a situation with one or more clan members was handled in a way you see as not optimal, I am sincerely sorry for that. As you can see, admins and members continue to reach out here in concern.

I do however, feel very strongly that the public forum area of the clan website is not the place for extended discussion about such details and agree with Hippi's initial statement that I copied and pasted above. Private discussion of such matters, in my humble opinion, are much more appropriate in such situations.

Thank you; we are here for such interactions for anyone who needs.

[FatFingers23]

I've seen some of the Screenshots, but i did not see a really good way to handle it in that moment. Some people just get torn up about these things and you cannot reason with them. The person who left the clan i know them very personaly and they're a good friend of mine. They have been upset since election night as afraid and i can't say i blame them, it's pretty scary right now in the states if you belong to certian groups of people. We all seen the things our President Elect have said, not to mention his VP also said about certian groups of people who are living in America. We all hope it was just talk and nothing will come of it. It is still scary, i remember not to long ago all the hate towards these groups not just from communites, but also from our Goverment. Finnally it changed and we saw a lot more equaility in the past few years, and now there are people who are in charge that were on the side trying to stop it and have spoken against it in the past. It can put people on edge and say or act out in ways that are not expected. So now you see where that person was coming from and why they acted out like they did. I think the staff that was on handled it as best as they could with out the facts in front of them. I think there was a comment on both sides that should of probably not been said. To me it looked like it happened very fast, in 10 mins or less. The chat screenshots i've seen seemed unbiassed on staff side and trying to stop the situation before it got out of hand. What i would imagine you would do if there was such rash statements on both sides. Which to me it looked like there was. Sometimes you can't handle peoples actions, it just happens and that is what happened here i think.

[Shortstuff]

I seem to remember a similar thread at the last election. Everyone in the States, and world wide for that fact, are going to have a difference in opinion. Unfortunately, that's life. Here in the UK, we have differences about our useless government and their way of ruining our country, we are all entitled to an opinion, not everyone will like that.

Jeez, if I had to leave the clan because of a conversation, I'd have left in my first week. Rs is an escape from reality, if the chat is too much for some to handle, log off and go enjoy real life, or just leave the chat until later in the day. To go to extremes of leaving a clan over an opinionated conversation is a little extreme.

Admin do their very best to handle situations as they arise. When we all applied to the clan, we all signed on the dotted line to the rules, they need to be enforced and action taken appropriately when needed.

Next topic of convo, should we really vote for oob as president?

[Raist Fasa]

Yes...next topic please.

He has my vote, lol.

[Oobz]

The situation was not as is being presented here.

A person in the clan was very upset, and what was needed was some tolerance and understanding. Qualities, I would think, that an adult clan would display. It was not a political debate. It was actually a clan member that required some extra consideration in light of some extreme circumstances. All of this was created by a thoughtless comment and attitude by another clan member. It was handled poorly by admin who decided to deal with the situation by immediately throwing the rule book at the person publically in cc. We have now lost a member who leaves the clan feeling attacked and unsupported by koa. It was incredibly unsettling to witness, and to say I am disappointed is an understatement.

As to snow's comment, we cannot assume that this person attended to leave the clan or rs. I heard the same comments, but I cannot assume to know the mind or decision of another person. Nor does the comments made make this person less important or less of a loss.

Personally, I am concerned. I repeat, in case this justification about political debates appears again - this was not two people discussing politics. This was not an extended conversation. This was one young person, very upset and needing some clan support. The same support we regularly provide for those clan members venting their rs frustrations and losses.

I am not prepared to take the popular position on this one. Sorry.

Wynn

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with a lot of what you have said there, Wynn.

First of all, I had no idea how upset this clannie was until after the comment (joke) was made. So, I'm guessing the clannie who made the joke didn't know that either and I am pretty sure they would not had made it had they known, I have never seen the clannie who made the joke be rude, disrespectful or inconsiderate previously.

It wasn't poorly handled by admin and you are wrong when you say it was dealt with by immediately throwing the rule book at the person in cc. Infact, the admin didn't even say that in cc until after the clannie had left the cc. You say it was unsettling to witness, you make it sound like everyone attacked said clannie in cc, the truth is, a joke was made, and yes, it obviously wasn''t great timing but it wasn't meant in a spiteful way, and the other clannie got very upset about it, there was no reasoning with them at that point (I know, I was talking to them via pm).

What are you concerned about? I have found the cc to be quite lively recently with no issues at all.

For the record, I actually very much liked and got on with the clannie who has left, I hope they do actually return here oneday. I personally can't see why this one very small incident would make someone quit the clan for good, it's a damn shame actually.

[Deep_Pain]

I like cheese