Beefeater

[Ziff]

Thanks admin...

It's hard to find a balance between no drama & need/right to know. The game isn't Real Life, but the players and various relationships are. A little info helps give closure. Over a year ago, some people were 'joking around' and I was very upset. Hardly played for weeks, even 'off radar.' When I started coming around again, a number of prominent members were just, all at once, -gone- Mabel Rose, Aunt Pol, Goddess Frigg, Capt Bonney... It's just weird when ppl you look forward to seeing, go "poof."

Most of us liked Beef and, no we didn't hear his side (though I'm sure admin did), but if several, different ppl complained... And, the rl stalking is just getting a little much. Then again, it's good to know a bit about what happened for rl. If I run into him in rs, I'm fine hanging out, but don't think I'd send a fb friend invite at this time. 0-0

So. Just my thoughts. Thanks for being flexible. ;)

[Dima]

Blimey. First Ed now this...
I trust the lot-in-charge know what they're doing. No objections, seeing the evidence.

[serame]

There are way more than two sides to this story. I've heard a lot of versions of this from a lot of different people, though not from all the people involved, and I have also heard Beef's account from start to finish. Stalker is a horrendous label to stick on someone. The word has a long and complicated legal and criminal definition that should never be applied to anyone without the interpretation of law.

In the few instances I have seen when someone has been kicked from KoA, never has there been such public character assassination. I have been privileged to get to know Beef in Mumble over the past year or so, and I think he is totally wide open, honest, easy to talk to, and so very funny. He has gone to bat for me more than once when I have totally messed things up. He definitely wears his heart on his sleeve, which turned out to be his undoing. What you see with Beef is what you get. He can babysit my kids anytime.

I do think Beef made some mistakes and used bad judgment in the cited circumstances. Who has never done or said something they wish they could take back? I know I have. But I do not for a second believe it was done to intentionally cause offense or with premeditated malice.

You must of course believe what you will with the information you have. I felt an overwhelming need to come to his defense, since he cannot do it himself anymore. Harrassment, okay. But tell him straight to his face to stop and he will. Real life stalker? No.

[TrixStar]

Very well put Serame, there's definitely more to this story but as you said it'll never be heard.

[Tamal]

Well said Serame. I agree.

[Rawstar]

Beautifully worded Serame and I agree with every word.

[scootch]

You must of course believe what you will with the information you have. I felt an overwhelming need to come to his defense, since he cannot do it himself anymore. Harrassment, okay. But tell him straight to his face to stop and he will. Real life stalker? No.

Not causing Bad things In the Letter adm Sent. they Did tell him to Stop. But He did it agin.

How do you truley Know Inocence. Because Of type and a voice Coming out your head Phones. or speakers. Or a Phone call.

[blarny3]

I can see this would cause an emotive response, however this situation the Admins mentioned did indeed happen on a previous occasion, on more than one time while I was admin. This was kept from public domain as Beef was given several chances to change and Admin did not want to assassinate his character. Beef admitted himself he was way out of line.

I am no longer admin, but as soon as this announcement was displayed I thought to myself that it would be something related. Believe me I think people can and do change (being a counsellor), however this is a game and meant to be fun, and if you ever have been a victim of harrassment from anyone you would be able to empathise more with the victim than the perpetrator. Certainly if it was happening to me in game I would hope the Admin would take a hard line as no one no matter what the circumstance has the right to make another person afraid, and when this goes into RL situations that is one line crossed too far.

I trust Admins do what they do for the good of the clan, and on that note, thanks admins for protecting us in this way.

[magerpainz]

You put all the same thoughts and feelings into words that I was having, as I am sure many here have had, that I couldn't seem to express myself Serame! Well Put!!

We all are truly fortunate to have you as Liaison, and on staff of KOA.

they Did tell him to Stop. But He did it agin.

Scootch..........uh......erm.....hmm......

[Rawstar]

Not causing Bad things In the Letter adm Sent. they Did tell him to Stop. But He did it agin.

How do you truley Know Inocence. Because Of type and a voice Coming out your head Phones. or speakers. Or a Phone call.

I think what you are saying Scootch can be said for either side of the arguement. Noone witnessed every encounter or message sent between the parties.
None of us are condemning the decision to ask Beef to leave, nor are we accusing the other party of lying. We are merely trying to highlight that it seems rather slanderous to brand someone a stalker... If the case was actually of stalking surely the police should be involved...

We are an adult clan and it seems a lot of 'personal relationships' have formed outside of the game. I can guarantee peoples personal emails/telephone dont 'magically' appear in the other parties hands... obviously Beef went too far and I am sure he is both aware and sorry that this happenned (I hope so anyway) this may not excuse it but there is no need to publically brand him a stalker.

[mozcheez]

well said, serame. thank you.

[blarny3]

Seriously I really do think people see only what they want to...Beef is like any other member and like any other member if you break the rules...you're warned and warned...and if its serious enough you go. You all are making assumptions that the police have not been involved...and like I said having seen it from the other side and seen the evidence and heard it from Beefs own lips...perhaps 'stalking' was an emotive word...but sadly that is exactly what it was, harrassment of the worst kind, in short making other peoples lives a misery...your choice what you want to believe...personally I prefer to make my own mind up based on evidence, and not someone who was far from a victim whining that 'it was not his fault and oh this is so unfair'.

I am sorry to be harsh but all this poor beef is a load of crap...the victims have suffered far more I can assure you sadly some of them have left Koa because of it. This was a just and fair removal from the clan based on the evidence.

[magerpainz]

personally I prefer to make my own mind up based on evidence

As do we all!

Thanks for filling us in Deb!! We only believe what we see or are told from all sides. If we aren't told properly or see anything unusual , what else can we believe?

[TrixStar]

Seriously I really do think people see only what they want to

Or see only what they are allowed to see.

[mozcheez]

We're forced to make assumptions because we're not given all the facts. What else can we do? Were the police called? Deb saying that we're assuming police haven't been called implies that they have, so now that's what readers are going to think. Who honestly knows? If they were, KoA should know, because that would reinforce the serious accusations that have been made.

This whole thing is seriously dividing KoA. I haven't seen any arguments that Beef shouldn't have been kicked... just that those are really serious, harsh accusations to make against someone that no one here has met in real life (to my knowledge).